Hmmm. Pete may have a good point there. Possible trade off? We run the Germans for one of his SISK's (and hand him - and his wanks, sorry, yanks - their arses on a plate) and we get to borrow some kit off him?
Might be worth investigating...
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
And so it goes on:
Dave
I appreciate the time constraints (and obviously we've chosen to do a ucap game in Feb for the reasons of daylight hours and the fact it will be six months since UCAP was last used) but i have to be frank, feeling with the PBI guys in general is that if a Russian front urban game goes on in jan its going to affect freshman (i dont know if you recall the other times when game shave been close together causing both to be impacted)
We want to work with you but this isnt going to make anyone want to do that if im brutally honest. We could do some great stuff together but we're simply not inclined to if we feel that we've been 'sniped' at getting an urban game in at the start of the year.
Its not a case of having to make events secure, its more a case of working together to not cut small cakes into smaller pieces.
Is this because its good for WWII airsoft and pacing or because you feel you *need* to have a game, surely the combined training event would have made folk aware that CIA had not packed up and that would have been in Nov/dec?
All i can say is that the majority of us are unhappy about teaming up for a training day or attending a jan game if you *have* to do this. Its a massive shame as we thought the idea was otherwise a winner. If you want to patch up any perceived rifts in public then i cannot for the life of me see how doing this is going to help, if anything it might create a very real fall out rather than a wrongly pubically perceived one.
Obviously its completely up to you guys but in answer to your initial question, I think if you do it in January the answer to 'are there enough Russians' will be 'no' personally.
Im personally disappointed as I thought a joint training day along the lines you've suggested would have made a great close to the year (we could even have had an end of season social at it).
Would it not be a plan to go ahead with a joint event putting you a 'game' on the map for the end of the year - surely that would make it more like three to four months form your last 'event' rather than eight?
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Gawd, shame on you.
1. Assuming us putting on an indoors event just because you have.
2. Attempting to twist arms with a threat of non-cooperation.We shifted our planned September game to August because you announced yours first. I cancelled my holiday so we could arrange ours in August and subsequent shiannegans meant that NEITHER game went ahead. I was NOT pleased to say the least.
For heaven sake, get interest in your game stoked up, get 'em booked and you are sorted!
Leave US to worry about IF and WHEN we can sort a Russian game.
Simples!
I am really, really not going to get going to get into ghey argey-bargey for no reason Gareth.
The reason for organising an all forces training day if for the benefit of the punters - not CiA (or PBI for that matter) let alone in restoring rifts that don't exist. Or wouldn't if people didn't keep making them!
Sounds like Gadge and Scaley are running scared for some reason. Gadges' pm smacks of an ultimatum to me as well.
Tell them to "bollocks". If Gadge wasn't so pigheaded, he'd see that it's two totally different scenarios. Hell, people will have to buy extra kit for the PBI game! So I really can't see what he's whining about.
As for josh, if we can get his kit and save the punters some money, it's worth maybe playing one of his sisks, just to shut him up (and to indulge in some cock company baiting).
Well, that's a surprise coming from you Pete! Hmmmmm.... has some merit.
Having said that I seem to recal his 'Russian kit was a bit poor and greatcoats would be just as simple a solution. Heh, I have two to lend out!
Gadge:
The other thing is Dave if the date was suitably removed form Freshman and we'd doen the joint day together we coudl have done a PBI drive to get folk excited about doing Russians.
I spent all Sunday persuading rich it was a good idea and showing him cheap kit websites.
Given that we *could* have potentially got me, evo, yith, pete 59, barrie& anne & sian on board that would have been seven to start with (please not im not speaking for pete 59 or barrie and anne, more the fact that if we pushed it as a group we could have got everyone excited about it)
I reckon I could have got webby and carly interested to (webbys our new PBI co-organiser btw) and more than likely Jon and or Ranj.
Seriously Dave we *want* to work with you, when you said it was ok to tlak about the training day there was general muttering about being glad any sillyness was over and some good ideas fired about.
I personally think we could do worse than bigging each others games up TBH, i just really feel that we try hard not to run games of the same inherent nature close to anyone elses and i think had the situations been reversed we certainly wouldn't have plumped for an indoor game and not done *any* game that close to one of yours.
As said if you feel you could do a joint day with us and russian game indoors *after* we're more booked up (and help us push it), we'd be overjoyed to help push your game and fill up the ranks en masse.
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Its all a moot point though - we DON'T have a Russian game at the moment....
Hmmm, is blackmail too strong a word?
Well, that's a surprise coming from you Pete! Hmmmmm.... has some merit.
I just want to see this game go ahead Dave. Even more so now that Gadge is having a moan. He and the rest of PBI are acting like kids and reinforcing my reasons for binning them. Freshman was conceived and booked in one hell of a hurry. No gameplan has been written, no planning meeting held and no site recce carried out. How dare they try to blackmail us? As if we'd miss them anyway! (Only Evo has Russian kit). As for Gadge dragging B&A, Pete59 et al into this, words fail me. It shows how low Gadge will go and any talk of rifts and fallouts is just his ego talking.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
It's Gadge's use of "us" and "we" so often that makes me think its HIM and no-one else that's coming up with that shite from the PBI angle. If anyone is trying to turn this into a "competition", then it's Gadge.
Oh, and to amuse you. Monaf was on the phone earlier. The exact words were "what is it with that cunt Yith? Does he only have one volume or something?" (him, Gadge and Rich were at the same site yesterday)
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
Dave shame on *you* for twisting my intentions
Im being utterly candid and transparent here.
There is no hint or threat of non co-operation, were simply not going to be able to support a game that will impact on ours its not a threat its a fact.
There was no suggestion you'd done an urban because we have, i dont know how you put 2 and 2 together and got five.
As for the training day sorting perceived rifts... your words not mine
If you dont want to work together then that's fine, we do but you have to show willing on your part.
If you dont want us to try and get a group of guys up for playing Russians then we'll not bother.
We'll just focus on our planned (and announced) winter training that we were going to adjust to fit in with you guys as it seemed the right thing to do.
Essentially Dave, you messaged me asking us to help you with the training days. You also asked me not to put it to the others for a few days which i did. We discussed it as a group this morning.
We're up for that, but help us by not doing a similar in nature game so close to ours.
And to be brutally frank Dave, if were honest Rifts *do* exist between PBI and CIA
Guys not amazigly keen on me...
Despite protestations form yourself i still hear from folk how you're cross about the re-en forum thing (despite setting one up for Daves lads
), equally if you were not upset with me I'm very surprised I did not get the curtosy of beig told my modding services were no longer required rather than it being quickly arranged while i was away. While i'm quite happy to accept tit for tat actions its inconsistent with being 'fine with things'
Nige is less than amused that Pete was asked to be a CIA organiser while he was still doing stuff for us, that might possibly be seen as a little underhand - i appreciate you need someone on board with military skills/ experience but you know...
Kermit dislikes Yith (and to that degree so does Pete Dunn to a degree)
So we're hardly all best mates are we?
Now given that we've repeatedly tried to patch stuff up (offering free places to the last few events for yourself and or steve/headshot) it doesn't sit well when we put out a game nice and early and then feel undercut.
You've always told me you're logical and objective (even when you appear massively inconsistent) so please understand why as a group we'd be unwilling to get involved with joint planning when it seems co-operation is one way.
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:slap: Guy, is neither a party to these current game discussions or the training day proposal.
I didn't ask for your help to run our training day - I suggested a joint training day. I asked for your delay in bringing the proposal because the message hadn't even reached others in CiA, I was was floating a proposal to you. Had you said no then that would have been that. No more discussion.
NO, NO, NO. I am not miffed you set up a PBI forum (for the last time) (and not the web site - I pay that for you). In my opinion it's not a good idea to set up a new forum, just as Jeff and Dog Co - the main airsoft forum is all the worse for it. Just look at the PBI section now - barely a post.
Moderating - you have never done any moderating. I was doing it all, forum-wide. I needed to make sure every post was moderated in my absence - the offer for volunteers went up and several PBI members volunteered their services, which was fab. You didn't and it didn't surprise me as you were a mod in name only. So, the offer was there, no sleight intended to you.
As for who dislikes who - that is neither here nor there. I wouldn't say ANY airsofter or reenactor is a friend or a mate - that includes the CiA team. I don't do this hobby to find friends - its a pastime and to get anywhere people must work together, no matter what personal differences may be. I talk to you, Nige an Rich yet you make out there is some sort of antipathy. Very strange!
You seem to have a whole bunch of stuff clouding your mind and you are muddling all sorts of issues.
Getting players booked on your game seems to be a logical place to start - before we may or may not announce anything!
Essentially Dave
What im trying to say is that i genuinely want us to work and plan togehter.
We only want to do three events a year, i cant see you wanting many more than that either, if we put our heads together we can do them spaced a month apart or more form each other and of different natures.
I would also like to be friends with you agian but its difficult when i finding you friendly face to face and via pm but then i'm getting the rumour mill back to me that this isnt the case and that you're still pissed off.
We can either put it behind us and move on or its going to keep dragging on.
I was speaking to yith earlier about the training day idea and how i hoped we could all use it to get friendly again and that i hoped that one day you'd be in with pbi again as you're a good bloke.
I was genuinely pleased when you messaged me about the idea as it seemed a way forwards.. please see how similar games so close together (in potentia) are a step back.
LOL, I probably have to qualify this as I wasn't very clear - hope you know what I meant! I wouldn't say ANY airsofter or reenactor is a friend or a mate - that includes the CiA team.
It's a bit cheeky of him to talk about games being on top of one another, after the PBI St.Lo game was held 2 weeks before Op' Ariel! I was at the planning meeting for that and Gadge and Yith decided it wouldn't impact on the CiA event! Op Lightning was also a month before Die Glocke. Also, Gadge seems to forget that he was keen to offer Steve a free place because he needed someone to handle pyro for both games!
LOL, I probably have to qualify this as I wasn't very clear - hope you know what I meant! I wouldn't say ANY airsofter or reenactor is a friend or a mate - that includes the CiA team.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
To be honest, I'm not sure even Gadge knows what he is on about - everything is so muddled up! Logic and clear thinking isn't his strong point - I like to think it is mine though. 
I wonder if Scaley knows all PBI want him for is his white van? Gawd, he was trying to persuade them to set up a shooting gallery at a reenacting show to encourage the kids. Huh? We don't want kids in WW2 airsoft, let alone encourage them. In any case, encouraging the shooting bit ain't the best way to put a case forward...
Yep, a severe lack of direction and focus going on with PBI at the moment. Gadge throwing his toys again isn't helping at all.
I note that Barrie & Ann have added their interest to our Russian game, so that's pissed on Gadges' bonfire slightly.
I've been doing some mooching about for Ruskie kit today and have come to the conclusion that it's dirt cheap and there's plenty of time for it to arrive in the post, even from Russia itself. Might be worth a bulk order at some point, if there's interest, in order to try and get a discount?
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Can we try and involve Lardy in kit discussion - I'd like to motivate and involve him where at all possible (without involving him in the game itself, if you see what I mean?).
Nothing is muddled i'm afraid. I'm fortunate in being very objective and self aware myself (painfully so at times)
I find the comment that i 'never did any moderating' quite offensive. A casual scan of the website and forum section or the private discussion section would show numerous accounts where i've flagged up something (and often acted upon) that I thought was unsuitable or unsavoury for the site... So while you may say no offence was intended I can assure you it was taken and can only assume not notifying me before hand was as I say some 'tit for tat' riposte for not being informed upon the PBI forum until it was running... and if so touche!
Now moving on, to quote yourself:
"We do it in conjunction with PBI. Joint effort.
Not only will it make running easier it will sit well with Pete's 'move' and resolve rumours of PBI/CiA bust ups.A bigger, better, more comprehensive training day than has ever gone before..."
So how do you do it as a joint effort if we're not helping... that makes no sense Dave.
Pete spoke to us the other day about your lack of military experience and skills within the organising team, hence your move to take him on, and surely you'd require the members of PBI to 'help' by transferring the skills the four or five of us that are ex-servicemen have on.
It is, i agree, a logical step to get folk booked on for Freshman, personally I'd have thought the fact that 11 are already booked in with several others interested a clear indication that things were going well given its around five months away....
And on a passing note, i'm utterly dismayed you dont find cameraderie or friendship within the organising element of CIA. Personally on the PBI front we do this *becasue* we are freinds, its what motivates us to get over petty pitt falls and band togehter.
If i wasn't such good friends with Rich, Nige, Webby and Evo I dont know if i'd have as much enthusiasm for putting on events. We're very lucky in that we all want the same things and enjoy socialising as well as working together. Otherwise its just an unpaid job and an unappreciated one at that!
Anyway, think about what I've said about working together, we could do some great stuff but it has to obviously work for both parties.
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As a side issue I suggested a joint training thing might help public impressions of PBI/CiA rift - not least Scaley throwing a huff and you taking PBI away from the CiA forum. This was not, not ever will be, a good reason to run an event. Event running is not for personal gain nor improvement in status or peer approval. It is for the benefit of the paying punter. Full stop.
Paranoia here - I say some 'tit for tat' riposte for not being informed upon the PBI forum . I made a public announcement for all to see and was a call for assistance. By splitting tasks the whole thing became more manageable. I must admit it did strike home when you stated you never read some parts of the forum - and it dawned on me that the other mods were the same. I was the ONLY person who read EVERY post. Something had to be done and it was done. Real moderating, every post read and acted upon. Job done. Hell, Diesel set the PBI forum up and he is a CiA mod!
Pete spoke to us the other day about your lack of military experience and skills within the organising team, hence your move to take him on, and surely you'd require the members of PBI to 'help' by transferring the skills the four or five of us that are ex-servicemen have on.
No, we took a careful and deliberate action to bring on board someone who was 100% behind was CiA was trying to do. We didn't do it lightly, given past experience, and we don't want a CiA team of ten people. Each person has their own set of skills and life experience to bring to the table. Pete isn't only an ex-serviceman but has many years experience of running sites and games along with enthusiasm and ideas.It is, i agree, a logical step to get folk booked on for Freshman, personally I'd have thought the fact that 11 are already booked in with several others interested a clear indication that things were going well given its around five months away....
So, no worries there then. Strangely you weren't bothered about pitching St Lo two weeks away from a CiA game!And on a passing note, i'm utterly dismayed you dont find cameraderie or friendship within the organising element of CIA. Personally on the PBI front we do this *becasue* we are freinds, its what motivates us to get over petty pitt falls and band togehter.
Depends on what you call friends I suppose. Camaraderie, yes of course. Great to spend the odd weekend with. But friends? Well, I have never invited anyone to the house for dinner nor would I trust anyone with £10,000 in cash. As I say, its a hobby not real life!
What I do in and for CiA I like to think is for the benefit of the genre. I'm dismayed by childish behaviour that's seems to abound. Why chaps can't think of the big picture is beyond me.Anyway, think about what I've said about working together, we could do some great stuff but it has to obviously work for both parties.
And there it is. Obstacles put it the way, both petty political and personal, make it very hard.Now then, to my surprise I have to admit, the CiA team were agreeable to the idea of a well run All Forces training event run in conjunction with PBI. I regard that as a very positive step.
Dave, you have the patience of a saint, is all I can say! How dare Gadge misquote me! If it weren't for the fact that I don't want to cause any arguments, I'd be on the phone to Gadge right now, telling him what I think of him and his "ex-servicemen".
I think that you're being more than reasonable but you're banging your head against a brick wall. Gadge (and Yith) just will not listen to anything which threatens to shatter their own little worlds and fragile self esteem.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
To be honest I'm giving him rope to hang himself with and true to say I'm being a little mischievous.
Heh, I don't get out much!
BTW, Gadge's claims of personal achievement don't hold much scrutiny. Soldier and instructor, journalist, GW national competition manager, teacher. Amazing, and he is only 32!
I'm sure that he and his mom are very proud of him. 
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
*sigh*
Threatening to boycott our game is bonkers.
Fair enough, he does have a point about people being a bit stuck for cash after Christmas, but it's never stopped us from organising an event in the past!
Incidentally Jan 30/31 is out for me.
IMHO, they jumped our date. They knew we were organising an event for around Christmas, we spoke about an Eastern Front one in April this year! They announced their game without any consultation, as we've tended to do in the past.
Using the threat of other people not turning up is twattish, and I'm amazed he's mentioned Pete.
He also seems to forget that, after Yith and Nige's chronic leadership, Pete and I ended up commanding the US team at Lightning!
With due respect to Pete, running an airsoft game has fuck all to do with military experience and everything to do with clear leadership, communication and sticking to the plan.
BTW Dave, I made you homemade pizza once! You misanthrope!
S
